The Day's Klara GUDZYK interviews His Eminence Archbishop Ivan Jurkovic,
Papal Nuncio to Ukraine:

    The Holy See recently appointed Archbishop Ivan Jurkovic as the new papal nuncio to Ukraine. In many respects, political relations between the Vatican and Ukraine depend on the papal nuncio, as on any ambassador. There is also the aspect of the new nuncio's influence on the overall religious situation in this country, his understanding of the needs and problems of our extremely complicated church life that requires tolerance and understanding from everyone involved. His Excellency Archbishop Ivan Jurkovic kindly agreed to an interview with The Day.
    
    How will the change in the papal leadership affect relations with the other churches, particularly in Ukraine? Will new nuncios be appointed to other countries now that a new pontiff has been elected?
    
    I. J.: The papacy is an institution called upon to secure the unity and stability of the church. Therefore, it would be erroneous to assume that the visage of the church will change with the new pontiff. Of course, every person adds his talent, style of thinking, and ways of operating. The new pope has spent over 20 years in Rome and he is well aware of the church's status in the world. As one of the late John Paul II's closest associates, he is also very familiar with Eastern Europe. As for the nuncios, they remain in office as a rule, according to tradition.
    
    How effectively is the process of rebuilding Catholic structures taking place in Ukraine? Does the architecture of new Ukrainian churches always conform to the standards of the Catholic Church and the religious building traditions of Ukraine? Is this important?
    
    I. J.: After many years of hardships and persecution, the Catholic Church in Ukraine has been trying to improve the conditions in which to carry out its mission. Much has been accomplished, but serious obstacles remain. We do hope that past injustices will be corrected soon, if only partially. This rejuvenation of church life also envisages the building of religious premises and solutions to problems related to religious architecture. The main objective we're all trying to reach is to have the religious structures continue the great traditions cherished by the church, also to enrich these traditions with modern achievements. However, the implementation of such projects requires considerable funds and time. And one is pained to consider the consequences of war devastation and ideological struggle, how they have affected man, causing spiritual blindness and aloofness from the Lord.
    
    YOUR COUNTRY HAS AN ATMOSPHERE OF UNITY, FRATERNITY, AND TOLERANCE
    
    What is the situation with the Catholic clergy in Ukraine? What is the percentage of Ukrainian bishops, parish priests, monks, nuns, seminary students, and believers? What ethnic groups dominate among the clergy?
    
    I. J.: The Catholic Church in Ukraine has some 5,000,000 Greek Catholic and 1,000,000 Roman Catholic faithful. The Greek Catholic clergy is almost completely made up of Ukrainians and is gradually being replenished with well trained clergymen from the Diaspora, mostly from the United States and Canada. The Roman Catholic clergy is more varied, and includes priests from many countries - Slovakia, France, Spain - but mostly from Poland. However, the situation is evolving rather dynamically, as many local priests have been ordained. The same is true of the cloistered communities. In fact, this multiethnic composition of the clergy is a normal phenomenon for the Catholic Church as an ecumenical institution; similar situations are observed in many other countries.
    
    Is it important to have a national Ukrainian corps of the Catholic Church in this country? Will the Ukrainization of Catholicism speed up or slow down the development of the Catholic Church in Ukraine? Will this Ukrainization serve to improve relations between Ukrainian Catholics and Greek Catholics or perhaps vice versa?
    
    I. J.: The Catholic Church is ecumenical, but it exists in various national contexts, each with its cultural specifics. This is one of the sources of the richness of the church, one of the very important elements of its creative potential and pastoral endeavors. In Ukraine the ecumenical character of the Catholic Church is also manifest in the two existing Catholic traditions that expand the possibilities of its mission. Of course, at times this diversity causes certain complications, but I think that with time and the maturing of this society, there will be fewer such problems. Even now I believe that your country has an atmosphere of unity, fraternity, and tolerance. This impression is perhaps one of the most pleasant surprises that I have experienced. I've had it since I arrived in Kyiv. What can I say? I hope for all of us that the Catholic Church in Ukraine will remain as close as possible to the history of this country, its rich spiritual and cultural traditions, and that it will become increasingly open to Catholicism all over the world.
    
    What is your view of a patriarchate for the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC)? This structure is found in some numerically smaller Uniate churches as part of the ecumenical Catholic Church. What's the reason for the previous Vatican policy? Was it a concession to the Moscow Patriarchate or is the UGCC not ready to have a patriarchate? What are the requirements for obtaining this status? Does the Holy See think that the community that didn't hesitate to withdraw from the Ecumenical Patriarchate in the 16th century can now slacken contacts with the Vatican?
    
    I. J.: The issue of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Patriarchate lies within the sphere of competence of the Universal Pontiff. Pope John Paul II voiced his opinion during numerous meetings with Ukrainian Greek Catholic bishops. His message to the Synod that was held in Rome in the summer of 2004 was clear and unequivocal.
    "I share your aspiration to have a full juridical and ecclesial structure, which aspiration is rooted also in the prescriptions of canons and councils. I share it both in prayer and in patience, in anticipation of the day set by God on which I, being the successor of St. Peter the Apostle, will be able to confirm the mature fruit of your ecclesial development. Meanwhile, as you well know, your request is being seriously studied, as well as in the light of assessments of other Christian churches."
    The pontiff's words were not politics but the result of careful reflections following consultations and prayers. As the pope's representative, I consider it my duty to help everyone understand this position and live with the church in its inner maturation and assertion in Ukrainian society.
    
    ECUMENICAL CONTACTS: A TOP PRIORITY
    
    What are the current relations between the Nunciature and the Orthodox churches of Ukraine? Doesn't His Eminence think that the absence of normal official relations with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kyiv Patriarchate (UOC KP) - an Orthodox church that is the most open to communication - contradicts the Vatican's praiseworthy policy of ecumenism? Many people in Ukraine are wondering why the Vatican maintains contacts with Judaic, Buddhist, Islamic, and Protestant leaders, but not with the UOC KP episcopate.
    
    I. J.: Ecumenical contacts are one of the top priorities for all papal representatives. Sometimes they are facilitated by a stable and reliable ecumenical situation. At other times this work has to be done in the presence of serious tensions. This is precisely what we have in Ukraine. And so the Holy See decided not to intervene in such a sensitive and complicated issue as the absence of Orthodox unity in Ukraine, all the more so as we consider this an internal matter of the Orthodox community. This doesn't mean that local bishops and priests refrain from contacts with all brethren in Christ. Moreover, the Catholic Church can perhaps find new ways of communicating with one and all better than the others. Besides, it's a well known fact that our church is very active in the All-Ukraine Council of Churches and Religious Organizations. Therefore, what I detect as a degree of criticism in your question does not seem to take into account all the efforts of the Catholic Church, which are aimed at strengthening ecumenical understanding in Ukraine.
    
    According to the Russian religious media, Russian Orthodox hierarchs are placing considerable hopes on improving relations with the Vatican - among other things, at the expense of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. Is this really possible? Why does the Catholic Church seem considerably more interested in good relations with the Russian Orthodox Church than vice versa?
    
    I. J.: The Catholic Church attaches considerable importance to activities aimed at affirming the unity of all Christians. After the 2nd Vatican Council, the Roman Curia formed a special "ministry" for an ecumenical dialogue. It's formally known as the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. Lately, it has been a top priority for the popes. Not coincidentally, Benedict XVI in his first public message spoke of the need for a dialogue with other Christian churches.
    Other Christian churches may have different views. In general, they recognize that divisions in the Christian world are among the greatest disasters in the history of man. More often than not, however, they focus on separate matters that are probably closer to the sensitivity of their people. Yet, often lack of understanding is not so much the result of theological distinctions as of negative emotions, injustice, and suffering experienced in the course of history. Negative memories about the years of violent domination and political hegemony are especially vivid. In such a situation one must display considerable tolerance and work hard to bring peace to people's hearts to achieve understanding and mutual confidence. The efforts of our hierarchy are especially important in this process. When people can see for themselves that there is a top-level dialogue, however limited, they start hoping for further rapprochement between the churches.
    
    Another somewhat general question: A number of futurologists, sociologists, and experts on religion have written that the Catholic Church and Catholic culture in general are losing their influence on culture, the arts, world outlooks, and traditions in modern society; that this is especially true of Western Europe, which was largely formed by Catholicism. Is this really so? What fundamental measures is the Catholic Church adopting to counteract this waning influence?
    
    I. J.: In the past the Catholic Church was traditionally regarded as a purely European, even Western European, institution. Thank God, this attitude has now changed. Now, more than two- thirds of all Catholics live outside Europe. Therefore, it is impossible to have an objective idea about Catholicism by relying only on the European experience.
    On the other hand, it should be noted that Europe is experiencing a very specific period. I mean not only Western but also Central and Eastern Europe. For various reasons, Christianity has suffered a great deal in the past several decades. Added to the external hardships are changes in lifestyles caused by technological progress; changes with unpredictable consequences. Take the plummeting birth rate on the continent. I had thought that the situation would be different in Ukraine, but now I can see alarming statistics. This decline is unprecedented. Add here changes in the way of life and reduced social sensitivity, especially in the former Soviet countries, where the division of society into rich and poor took about a decade to form and brought about a glaring abyss between these strata.
    Such are the realities in which the Catholic Church and all the other Christian churches have to operate. Naturally, they have to exist in and with this world, which demands new answers and fresh evidence of the Spirit. And so there is no place for illusions; a great deal of complex work awaits us.
    But neither should we succumb to overly pessimistic moods and fleeting impressions. The Catholic Church continues to play a tremendous role in the modern world, practically in all fields of human endeavor. Let us not forget that there are more than 350,000 Catholic schools throughout the world and some 1,000 Catholic universities, where purely evangelical values are affirmed. This isn't enough, of course, but these figures testify to our church's effective efforts.
    In addition, one ought to stress the special role of the papacy. At a time when public interest in the pontiff seemed to be waning, we received proof of the exact opposite. The funeral of John Paul II was attended by 7,000 journalists and the election of the new pope, Benedict XVI, was at the center of world attention. Therefore, it would seem proper to discuss not waning interest but rather changes in its nature. Perhaps the church itself must look for new ways to the heart of modern man to open up for him the eternal horizons of the Scriptures.
    
    The late John Paul II was accused of being a rigid conservative who rejected all changes to certain canons that sociologists see as no longer corresponding to modern realities. Will Benedict XVI be more liberal than his predecessor in regard to such social problems as the weakening of celibacy, female priests, or contraceptives?
    
    I. J.: I don't think that notions like conservatism or liberalism apply to the church's situation. Unfortunately, many countries follow the stereotype that everything conservative is bad and all things that are liberal are good. These are rather serious prejudices and their consequences are reflected in the younger generations. For example, people with big, solid families and firm religious views are considered conservative, whereas people who disdain all morals, care nothing for the family or nation make headlines and are often described as individuals with independent, even progressive, world views. Of course, a critical observer can tell genuine values from fleeting, fashionable trends. Young people, however, are often confused and adopt ideals that quickly leave them disillusioned.
    The church, on the other hand, must remain true to the Good News. It must often make firm and decisive statements, but this is its mission, which it shall never abandon.
    By the way, we know that such accusations are addressed to the church by people who have drifted away from it and who have no intentions of returning. Often those who make such critical remarks know nothing about the life of the church. It's not hard to imagine how damaging their recommendations can be. Therefore, the new dynamism and new strategies of the church must always originate from the church, from those with an extensive Christian life experience enriched by the wisdom of the Word. There are many spheres where the church can better understand the world and respond to its current challenges. The popes are well aware that church reform can only rest on the foundation of true religious life guided by the Spirit. So we must see to it that the true life-giving springs of those who live by their creed and with clear souls filled with joy and plans for a happier future of all mankind never go dry.
    
    MY OWN LIFE IS RULED BY PROVIDENCE
    
    The post of papal nuncio is known and respected in Ukraine, especially among the faithful. It's only natural that they would want to learn more about the new appointee, his background, education, knowledge of languages, and previous appointments. They would certainly want to know how His Eminence came to serve the church, his theological education, pastimes, and attitude to the arts, literature, and vacations.
    
    I. J.: I'm Slovenian and come from an ordinary family; I was the middle son. When I started thinking about my future, I decided to become a chemist. Gradually, I found myself increasingly drawn to the idea of serving the church. I was ordained in 1977 and worked for two years as a parish priest near Ljubljana. In 1980 I was invited to join the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy, where priests are trained for the diplomatic service of the Holy See. Simultaneously I studied canon law at the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome. I entered the Vatican diplomatic service in 1984 and was dispatched to South Korea. That same year I enrolled in another academic institution, Central Texas College, which had a branch in Seoul. I graduated three and a half years later with a bachelor's degree. During all the years I spent in higher schools I studied languages. As a member of the small Slovenian nation I quickly realized the need to know other languages. If I'm not mistaken, I've been studying languages since I was 30. I started with German, followed by English, Italian, French, Spanish, Russian, Belarusian, and now Ukrainian. Of course, every Catholic theological student must learn some Latin. Add here my native Slovenian and several other languages of former Yugoslavia. Superior linguistic culture is one of the hallmarks of pontifical diplomacy, but it requires endless hours of study and practice. However, knowledge of languages has become a necessity for everyone, so people who lack this knowledge are ineligible for almost all responsible posts.
    As for my work, I mentioned that my diplomatic career began in South Korea, where I stayed from 1984 to 1988. It was a shame that I didn't see the Olympic Games because I was transferred to Colombia. I spent a little over 4 years in this South American country. I arrived in Moscow on March 4, 1992, where the Holy See was opening its diplomatic mission. Four years of demanding work followed, which added to my knowledge of Eastern Europe, other Slavic nations, and Orthodoxy. While I was in Moscow, I taught canon law at Thomas Aquinas Theological College.
    In 1996-2001 I lived in Rome, where I was the head of the State Secretariat's OSCE Department (the Holy See is a founding member of the OSCE and an active participant). In 2001 I was appointed nuncio to Belarus, and now I'm the papal nuncio to Ukraine.
    My hobbies? We all have them, but after years of work in various countries and on different continents I believe that personal preferences and hobbies change, depending on the country. Naturally, my years of study in Rome sparked my interest in art and history. Rome is an incredible city. First-time visitors cannot grasp its riches. Everything seems precious there, even the streets. I was also very impressed by the Far East. South Korea was taking its first steps as an economic power, but it had an excellent educational system and substantial creative achievements. It had an atmosphere of true optimism. Even now I remember the enthusiasm with which they were modernizing their country. At the time I also frequently visited Japan. In a word, the Far East was a taste of beauty about which I had practically known nothing.
    Colombia was a different world. Of course there were considerable difficulties, but that world was also very interesting and remarkably creative. This period enriched my knowledge of modern Hispanic culture. Spain is an important European country, although it is somewhat aloof from the others. However, if you consider the world as a whole, you realize that Spanish culture left countless traces in other countries and made a strong impact on the human race. When you consider the nations that have a special link with Catholicism, all this was especially important for me.
    In Moscow my interest in literature received a fresh impetus and it's still there. Literature is probably the sphere in which the human soul expresses itself with the most clarity, where it is capable of revealing something that is superior even to human experience, and where it can glimpse the realm of the Spirit. Of course, the visual arts and music have a great potential, primarily owing to their direct impact and originality, but perhaps they cannot as easily convey precise and thematically determined ideas. Words remain the key instrument in the world of religion and theological reflections, especially if they are close to the Word, meaning Christ, God, and man.
    My own life and personal preferences are largely governed by fate as determined by Providence. One could say that this is an act of violence against an individual who would prefer to live in a more stable and peaceful environment. On the other hand, openness to the world and one's fellow humans without making any personal plans means enriching one's own life.
    
    What are your first impressions of Ukraine? Are you finding it difficult to master Ukrainian? Is there anything in common between Ukraine and your homeland? What do you like best? What has surprised or displeased you the most? Are there any differences between your diplomatic mission in Ukraine and other countries? What's your strategic task as a nuncio to Ukraine?
    
    I. J.: I like this mission. Of course, I understand the complexity and special dynamism of the situation in Ukraine. Therefore, I'm aware that a papal nuncio in this country must act in a spirit of profound respect for the people and their history.
    I began by taking a course in Ukrainian. Every day I celebrate Mass in Ukrainian and every week I spend 4 hours with a very experienced teacher. I hope to make progress soon, but learning every language takes time.
    There is much in common between Slovenia and Ukraine, especially in the western part of your country. There are also quite a few elements in the customs and folklore that are common to other countries in Central Europe.
    By a unique coincidence my paternal grandfather spent several years in Rivne as a prisoner during WWI. He was drafted into the Austro-Hungarian army and was in Ukraine when he was captured. He worked on a farm not far from Rivne. Our family talked about the letters that he wrote. When he came home, he said his years as a POW weren't too difficult because he had worked with peasants.
    I hope I will feel comfortable in your country. Ahead of me lies hard work, but I'll try to do my best. A nuncio's mission is never carried out according to a pre- planned program. The main thing is to keep close to the people and the church, understand their needs and do one's utmost, so that every individual and each nation can realize their calling before history and our Lord.

Translation by "DEN".